Legislature(2023 - 2024)BUTROVICH 205

02/07/2023 03:30 PM Senate HEALTH & SOCIAL SERVICES

Note: the audio and video recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.

Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

Audio Topic
03:30:06 PM Start
03:30:33 PM SB45
04:35:21 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ SB 45 DIRECT HEALTH AGREEMENT: NOT INSURANCE TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Invited & Public Testimony --
          SB 45-DIRECT HEALTH AGREEMENT: NOT INSURANCE                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:30:33 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WILSON announced the consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 45                                                                  
"An Act relating to insurance; relating to direct health care                                                                   
agreements; and relating to unfair trade practices."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:31:28 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WILSON, District N, speaking as the sponsor of SB 45,                                                                     
provided the sponsor statement as follows:                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
          Senate  Bill 45  is necessary  to reduce  barriers                                                                    
     between   Alaskans  and   their   chosen  health   care                                                                    
     provider.  This  bill  allows patients  and  healthcare                                                                    
     providers to  enter into direct health  care agreements                                                                    
     (DHCA).   A  direct   health   care   agreement  is   a                                                                    
     contractual agreement between a  patient and a provider                                                                    
     for  health care  services. The  patient  pays a  flat,                                                                    
     periodic  fee  (generally   monthly)  in  exchange  for                                                                    
     routine   visits  and   access   to  their   healthcare                                                                    
     provider.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
          These agreements  are only between a  provider and                                                                    
     a   patient.    Unlike   the   insurer-patient-provider                                                                    
     trifecta,  in  a  DHCA  agreement,  no  third-party  is                                                                    
     directly  participating   in  or  profiting   from  the                                                                    
     provider-patient relationship.  Doctors currently spend                                                                    
     about  half   their  working   hours  on   paperwork                                                                       
     including paperwork  for third party  insurance. Direct                                                                    
     Health  Care  (DHC)  reduces  bureaucracy  by  allowing                                                                    
     patients to pay a flat  fee for routine care instead of                                                                    
     billing  insurance   for  every  doctor's   visit.  The                                                                    
     reduction  in administrative  burden  leads to  greatly                                                                    
     reduced costs and  more time in the day  for doctors to                                                                    
     spend with their patients.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
          While a  person with private health  insurance may                                                                    
     elect  to obtain  a DHCA  to  supplement their  current                                                                    
     health insurance   such as  a high deductible plan, but                                                                    
     these models  are not  health insurance    nor  do they                                                                    
     replace it  and should not be regulated as such.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
          This  bill  will  clearly exclude  qualified  DHCA                                                                    
     from  Title  21,  or insurance  regulations,  and  will                                                                    
     clear  up  any  confusion  regarding  the  legality  of                                                                    
     direct  health care  agreements  thereby improving  the                                                                    
     public's  access to  lower  cost,  high quality  health                                                                    
     care.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:32:14 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KAUFMAN arrived at the meeting.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:32:40 PM                                                                                                                    
JASMIN  MARTIN,   Staff,  Senator  David  Wilson,   Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature,  Juneau,   Alaska,  said  Senate  Bill   45  reduces                                                               
barriers  between  patients  and providers  by  clearly  allowing                                                               
direct health care agreements. A  direct health care agreement is                                                               
between   a  patient   and  a   provider   with  no   third-party                                                               
intermediary  profiting.  Parties  spell  out the  terms  of  the                                                               
agreement in a contract. The patient  pays a flat periodic fee in                                                               
exchange for  routine care, provider access,  and other services,                                                               
as   spelled  out   in   the  contract.   She   stated  that   an                                                               
oversimplified  analogy  of  how a  direct  healthcare  agreement                                                               
works is  a gym  membership. A  person pays to  access a  gym and                                                               
uses standard  equipment, but extras  like a tanning bed  may not                                                               
be in the  contract and require an extra fee.  Direct health care                                                               
fees are  about $100. An  employer can pay the  fee but is  not a                                                               
party  to the  agreement. Direct  health care  has the  following                                                               
benefits:                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
   • Reduced bureaucracy                                                                                                        
   • More appointment opportunities                                                                                             
   • Longer patient visits                                                                                                      
   • Reliable care                                                                                                              
   • Higher doctor morale                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:35:25 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MARTIN  said Alaska has  broadly drafted insurance  laws, and                                                               
the  legality  of  direct  healthcare   agreements  needs  to  be                                                               
clarified. Currently,  the official opinion of  the Department of                                                               
Commerce, Community  and Economic  Development is  that insurance                                                               
statutes  would  regulate  the agreements.  She  reiterated  that                                                               
Alaska statute does not explicitly  contemplate or prohibit these                                                               
direct provider  agreements. The agreements fall  under the broad                                                               
category of  insurance as  defined in Alaska  law. SB  45 defines                                                               
that  direct health  care agreements  are  not insurance.  Direct                                                               
health  care  agreements  are different  from  insurance,  health                                                               
maintenance organizations, and  medical services corporations for                                                               
the following reasons:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
   • No third-party middleman                                                                                                   
   • No risk to the insurer                                                                                                     
   • Periodic fees are charged at the end of a period; no prepay                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:37:10 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MARTIN provided the sectional analysis for SB 45 as follows:                                                                
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Section 1: Adds a new  section (.025 Direct health care                                                                  
     agreements) to AS 21 (Insurance) .03 (Scope of Code).                                                                    
     Section  (a), page  1, line  5, through  11: Defines  a                                                                
     direct  health  care  agreement  (DHCA)  as  a  written                                                                    
     agreement between  a patient (or representative)  and a                                                                    
     health  care provider  or business.  This section  also                                                                    
     stipulates that Medicaid recipients  under AS 47.47 and                                                                    
     those  receiving  assistance for  catastrophic  illness                                                                    
     and chronic or acute  medical conditions under AS 47.08                                                                    
     are not eligible to enter a DHCA.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Section (b), page 1, line  12, through page 2, line 19:                                                                
     Specifies what a DHCA must contain.                                                                                        
          (1)  It must  describe the  services a  patient is                                                                    
          entitled to for payment of a periodic fee.                                                                            
          (2) It  must specify:  the amount of  the periodic                                                                    
          fee,  the length  of period  the  fee covers,  any                                                                    
          additional  fees  the  provider  or  business  may                                                                    
          charge.                                                                                                               
          (3)  It must  include  contact  information for  a                                                                    
          representative  of the  provider or  business that                                                                    
          is responsible for patient complaints.                                                                                
          (4)  It  must  state  that the  agreement  is  not                                                                    
          health insurance.                                                                                                     
          (5)  Prominently state  that  the  patient is  not                                                                    
          entitled to protections  under Patient Protections                                                                    
          Under  Health  Care  Insurance Policies  or  Trade                                                                    
          Practices   and  Frauds   (AS   21.07  and   21.36                                                                    
          respectively).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Section  (c), page  2, line  20, through  29: Specifies                                                                
     that  a patient  may terminate  an agreement  within 30                                                                    
     days.  Requires any  fees and  payments, less  payments                                                                    
     made for services the health  care provider has already                                                                    
     performed that  are not included  in the  periodic fee.                                                                    
     This  section does  allow the  provider or  business to                                                                    
     charge  a cancelation  fee equal  to no  more than  one                                                                    
     month's cost of the periodic fee.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Section (d),  page 2, line  30, though page 3,  line 8:                                                                
     Specifies that  a patient or provider  can terminate an                                                                    
     agreement after 30 days with  at least 30 days' notice.                                                                    
     The provider must prorate the  periodic fee to the date                                                                    
     of termination.  The healthcare  provider may  charge a                                                                    
     termination fee if  the patient is the  one to initiate                                                                    
     the cancelation.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Section  (e), page  3, line  9,  through 11:  Specifies                                                                
     that a provider  may change the fee up to  once a year,                                                                    
     only with a written 45-day notice.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Section  (f), page  3, line  12, through  14: Specifies                                                                
     that the patient  is billed by the provider  at the end                                                                    
     of the period covered by the fee.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:40:35 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:41:25 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WILSON reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Section (g),  page 3,  line 15,  through 20:  Allows an                                                                
     employer  to  pay the  periodic  fee  on behalf  of  an                                                                    
     employee. This does  not mean the employer  is a health                                                                    
     insurance provider or business.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Section (h),  page 3, line  21, through 31:  Sets terms                                                                
     by  which  a  health   care  provider  may  immediately                                                                    
     terminate a DHCA.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Section (i), page 4, line  1, through 5: Specifies that                                                                
     a patient  or provider may  terminate a DHCA  if either                                                                    
     party violates the terms of the agreement.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Section (j), page 4, line  6, through 9: Specifies that                                                                
     a   DHCA  is   not  subject   to  AS   21.07  (Patients                                                                    
     Protections  Under Health  Care Insurance  Policies) or                                                                    
     AS 21.36  (Trade Practices and  Frauds) but  is subject                                                                    
     to other consumer protections and regulations.                                                                             
                                                                                                                              
     Section  (k), page  4, line  10, through  22: Specifies                                                                
     that a  DHCA is not  insurance and is not  regulated as                                                                    
     such.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Section (l), page  4, line 23, through page  5, line 8:                                                                
     Defines: health  care business, health  care insurance,                                                                    
     health care insurer, health  care provider, health care                                                                    
     service,    health   insurance,    health   maintenance                                                                    
     organization, and medical services corporation.                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
     Section 2: Adds a new  section (.915 Direct health care                                                                  
     agreements) to  AS 45 (Trade  and Commerce)  .45 (Trade                                                                  
     Practices).                                                                                                              
     Section  (a), page  5, line  11, through  17: Specifies                                                                
     that a provider  may not decline to  enter or terminate                                                                    
     a  DHCA solely  based on  a patient's  status within  a                                                                    
     protected class.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Section  (b), page  5, line  18, through  23: Specifies                                                                
     that a  provider may decline  to enter an  agreement if                                                                    
     they are unable to provide  the care the patient needs,                                                                    
     or their practice is at capacity.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Section  (c), page  5, line  24, through  27: Specifies                                                                
     that a  provider may  terminate a  DHCA with  a current                                                                    
     patient  based  on  their health  status  only  if  the                                                                    
     providers  is  not able  to  provide  the services  the                                                                    
     patient  requires or  in accordance  with AS  21.03.025                                                                    
     (section 1 of this legislation).                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Section (d), page  5, line 28, through page  6, line 2:                                                                  
     Defines:  direct  health  care agreement,  health  care                                                                    
     business,  health   care  provider,  and   health  care                                                                    
     service.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Section 3:  Adds a  new paragraph to  AS 45  (Trade and                                                                  
     Commerce)  .45 (Trade  Practices)  .471 (Unlawful  acts                                                                  
     and practices).                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Section (58),  page 6,  line 4:  Adds violations  of AS                                                                
     45.45.915 (section  2 of this legislation)  to the list                                                                    
     of  unfair   methods  of  competition  and   unfair  or                                                                    
     deceptive acts or practices in  the conduct of trade or                                                                    
     commerce that are declared to be unlawful.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:44:02 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  MARTIN  noted that  SB  45  allows  for direct  health  care                                                               
agreements.  Direct  health  care  and direct  primary  care  are                                                               
similar  terms,   but  not   interchangeable,  as   primary  care                                                               
agreements   only  allow   for   contracts   with  primary   care                                                               
physicians. Some testifiers may use  the term direct primary care                                                               
agreements.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:44:49 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GIESSEL  referred to SB  45, page  3, line 23,  and asked                                                               
what would constitute a failure to comply with a treatment.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:45:30 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MARTIN deferred the question to Mr. Diemer.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:45:47 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WILSON opened invited testimony on SB 45.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:46:00 PM                                                                                                                    
PETER DIEMER, Partner, Clayton &  Diemer LLC., Anchorage, Alaska,                                                               
replied that he would briefly overview  SB 45 and then respond to                                                               
the  question. He  stated that  SB 45  allows the  legislature to                                                               
make  limited-scope amendments  to Title  21 so  that Alaska  can                                                               
fully embrace  the direct healthcare  service and  payment model.                                                               
Title 21  currently contains a  broad definition for  health care                                                               
insurer,  health  care   maintenance  organization,  and  medical                                                               
service corporation.  SB 45 creates  a safe harbor  for providers                                                               
and patients  who elect  to engage in  a qualified  direct health                                                               
care  agreement while  creating  important  patient and  consumer                                                               
protections. SB  45 does  not change  the relationship  between a                                                               
patient and  their insurer. The  Division of  Insurance regulates                                                               
insurance, health maintenance  organizations, and medical service                                                               
organizations. SB 45 does not  change the exercise of independent                                                               
clinical  judgment by  the provider  or any  existing regulations                                                               
that apply  to various  licensed providers  engaging in  a direct                                                               
health care  agreement. In answer to  Senator Giessel's question,                                                               
he replied  that Alaska administrative codes,  promulgated by the                                                               
American Medical  Association (AMA), apply to  all physicians. He                                                               
stated that  SB 45, Section  1, subsection (h),  paragraphs (1-3)                                                               
are  consistent  with the  AMA's  code  of ethics  and  published                                                               
guidance on terminating a physician-patient relationship.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:50:33 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  GIESSEL  commented  that  the language  seems  broad  as                                                               
patients routinely do not follow treatment plans.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:51:10 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  TOBIN asked  what would  happen if  a patient  could not                                                               
complete a treatment plan due to lacking personal funds.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:51:45 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. DIEMER replied that direct  health care agreements usually do                                                               
not  include  prescriptions  within  the scope  of  services,  as                                                               
physicians generally  only offer  the services they  can provide.                                                               
Typically,  physicians  work  with   patients  to  obtain  needed                                                               
treatment.   Standards  for   the   termination   of  a   patient                                                               
relationship  exist.  A  physician  must  use  the  AMA  code  to                                                               
determine whether  the relationship can continue.  Termination is                                                               
generally due to a lack of willingness to comply.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:52:56 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR TOBIN suggested adding language  to SB 45 to clarify that                                                               
a doctor cannot arbitrarily drop a patient from an agreement.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:53:27 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GIESSEL  agreed that medication  is often  more expensive                                                               
than a  physician's visit. She stated  it would be prudent  for a                                                               
patient to carry health insurance.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:54:21 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  DIEMER  replied  that  direct  health  care  agreements  are                                                               
complementary  to  insurance.  Direct healthcare  agreements  are                                                               
often  a good  fit for  individuals with  high deductibles.  Most                                                               
providers recommend that patients maintain insurance.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:55:21 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GIESSEL  responded that the  cost of a medical  visit and                                                               
medication gets applied  to a high deductible.  She reasoned that                                                               
direct health  care agreements benefited the  providers and asked                                                               
how the agreements benefit patients.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:56:04 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  WILSON  stated  that  a  direct  service  agreement  could                                                               
benefit  an individual  who  does not  elect  employer vision  or                                                               
dental plans.  Direct healthcare agreements provide  more options                                                               
to consumers.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:57:09 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR TOBIN  asked whether direct  health care  insurance could                                                               
be equivalent to insurance.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON deferred the question to Ms. Wing-Heier.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:57:39 PM                                                                                                                    
LORI WING-HEIER,  Director, Division of Insurance,  Department of                                                               
Commerce,  Community  and  Economic Development  (DCCED)  Juneau,                                                               
Alaska,  replied  that  the division  does  not  consider  direct                                                               
health  care agreements  a substitute  for health  insurance. She                                                               
explained that  many families only  benefit from  their insurance                                                               
plan  if they  reach  their insurance  plan's  deductible. A  low                                                               
deductible  for  a  family  of  four is  $7,000.  A  direct  care                                                               
agreement is a fixed amount  that allows individuals and families                                                               
to  visit a  provider as  often as  needed without  paying extra.                                                               
Many  Alaskans  desire the  state  to  offer direct  health  care                                                               
agreements.  The  agreements  are beneficial  when  primary  care                                                               
physicians do not accept Medicare.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:59:27 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KAUFMAN  said he knew of  a doctor who could  not keep up                                                               
with  insurance paperwork  and  decided to  retire.  He asked  if                                                               
direct  health care  agreements would  help keep  doctors in  the                                                               
workforce  since  they would  not  be  bound to  the  documentary                                                               
requirement of insurance companies and the government.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:00:10 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  WING-HEIER replied  that she  could not  speak for  doctors.                                                               
However,  previous testimony  indicated paperwork  contributes to                                                               
burnout,  and   many  doctors  like   that  direct   health  care                                                               
agreements would  allow them to  be effective in  their community                                                               
without burdensome billing.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:00:52 PM                                                                                                                    
DR. JOSH  UMBEHR, CEO,  Atlas MD  Clinics, Wichita,  Kansas, said                                                               
direct   healthcare  agreements   help  patients,   doctors,  and                                                               
employers. He  said his  clinic had  used the  same model  for 12                                                               
years  and  had  never  raised prices.  The  monthly  charge  for                                                               
unlimited primary  care is $10  per child  and $50, $75,  or $100                                                               
per adult. Primary care includes  office visits, telemedicine, no                                                               
copay, in-office procedures, and  wholesale costs for medications                                                               
and lab work, which is 95  percent cheaper. He opined that direct                                                               
healthcare cost agreements reduce  emergency room visits, provide                                                               
better  continuity of  care,  decrease  specialty referrals,  and                                                               
lower  insurance premiums  for small  employers between  30 -  60                                                               
percent. He said direct  healthcare agreements create efficiency.                                                               
Having  enough doctors  is  not  a problem  in  health care.  The                                                               
problem  is that  doctors spend  40 percent  of their  time doing                                                               
non-clinical  paperwork.  He  stated  he had  helped  over  2,000                                                               
doctors open more than 800 - 900 clinics.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:03:40 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  DUNBAR  said  SB  45  allows  doctors  to  terminate  an                                                               
existing agreement if they cannot  provide a service. He asked if                                                               
a doctor could  deny an initial contract based  on health status.                                                               
He wondered if Mr. Umbehr's  clinic does screenings for very sick                                                               
individuals.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:04:27 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. UMBEHR replied that his  clinic does not have any constraints                                                               
on preexisting  conditions. He has  never seen a doctor  refuse a                                                               
patient  for  not  taking  medication.  He  reiterated  that  the                                                               
American Medical  Association (AMA)  has an  established standard                                                               
that allows  doctors to  discontinue a  relationship that  is not                                                               
healthy or productive, such as  failure to pay, making staff feel                                                               
unsafe, and  personality conflicts.  A doctor  might not  enter a                                                               
contract if  he does  not provide a  particular service  that the                                                               
patient wants, such as obstetrics.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:06:20 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  DUNBAR restated  his  question and  referred  to SB  45,                                                               
Section  2,  subsection (a),  which  lists  reasons a  healthcare                                                               
provider may not decline to  enter a direct healthcare agreement.                                                               
He asked whether adding preexisting  conditions to the list would                                                               
change the healthcare model.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:07:31 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. UMBEHR replied  that the direct health care  model is similar                                                               
to other models.  It is a business decision that  does not affect                                                               
ethics. The rules that apply  to insurance-based doctors apply to                                                               
direct care. Financial arrangements do not affect ethics.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:08:32 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  TOBIN  asked  whether  a  woman  would  have  to  pay  a                                                               
cancellation fee if  she became pregnant and wanted  to change to                                                               
a doctor who did obstetrics.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:09:07 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. UMBEHR replied that he could not  speak to SB 45, but that is                                                               
not  how the  business model  functions; it  is a  month-to-month                                                               
contract. Usually,  a patient continues  with their  primary care                                                               
doctor, who assists them in finding an obstetrician.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:10:57 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  DIEMER  referred  to  AS  45.45.915  (b)  and  said  that  a                                                               
healthcare provider could decline to  enter into a new healthcare                                                               
agreement if  the provider cannot provide  the patient's required                                                               
service. A physician can only  take patients that they can serve.                                                               
A  patient  would  not  have  to  cancel  a  direct  health  care                                                               
agreement if a medical need  arose that their physician could not                                                               
fulfill.  A  direct  health  care  agreement  offers  a  menu  of                                                               
services,  and  the  patient  could  continue  to  receive  those                                                               
services while  seeing a specialized  doctor for  other services.                                                               
He clarified  that SB 45  contains a cancellation  fee provision,                                                               
not a mandate.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:13:35 PM                                                                                                                    
DR.  LEE  GROSS,  Direct  Primary  Care  Provider,  Patient  Care                                                               
Foundation,  North Point,  Florida, said  he has  been practicing                                                               
under the direct  care model since 2012. He noted  that he has an                                                               
office  in the  second poorest  county in  Florida. The  hospital                                                               
agreed to pay the membership fees  for all employees that sign up                                                               
for a direct  health care agreement. The  hospital structured its                                                               
self-funded insurance  plan around the direct  health care model.                                                               
It eliminated  all copays and deductibles  for hospital services,                                                               
such  as CAT  scans and  surgeries. His  office and  the hospital                                                               
eliminated  all  financial  barriers  to  accessing  routine  and                                                               
unpredictable  services.   He  said  the  arrangement   with  the                                                               
hospital has  been in place  for four  years. In the  first year,                                                               
the  agreement  reduced  employee  premiums by  20  percent,  and                                                               
employee premiums  have not  increased. The  hospital has  seen a                                                               
sustained 55 percent reduction in  its employee health plan cost,                                                               
which has  saved it  millions of dollars.  Rural health  care has                                                               
many  obstacles,  such  as  access.  He  described  services  and                                                               
situations where the direct health  care model allowed his office                                                               
to respond to  crises faster and more  efficiently than providers                                                               
who bill  insurance companies. Rural hospitals  are struggling to                                                               
stay open,  but the hospital  he works with  had one of  the best                                                               
financial years in its history.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:17:25 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WILSON asked  if SB 45 could help  enhance rural hospitals'                                                               
business models.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR.  GROSS replied  that his  business  is a  four-year proof  of                                                               
concept. He  opined that  the concept applies  to more  than just                                                               
rural hospitals. Various socio-economic  areas are practicing it.                                                               
The variability and flexibility of  the direct care model make it                                                               
a very powerful tool.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:18:42 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  GIESSEL asked  whether Medicare  prevents patience  from                                                               
paying for  their healthcare. She  stated her  understanding that                                                               
providers could only accept what Medicare pays.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:19:24 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WING-HEIER responded  that a direct health  care agreement is                                                               
not  insurance,   and  it  is   not  Medicare.  A   consumer  can                                                               
participate in  an agreement and  receive primary care  while not                                                               
impacting  Medicare. She  stated that  the department  thoroughly                                                               
explored this question two years ago.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:20:00 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GIESSEL  said this  could benefit  Medicare beneficiaries                                                               
who can afford to enter into an agreement.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:20:29 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DUNBAR asked  why a person on Medicaid  cannot enter into                                                               
a  direct health  care  agreement as  stated in  SB  45, page  1,                                                               
Section 1.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:20:53 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  MARTIN replied  that Medicaid  is  a payer  of last  resort,                                                               
which complicates  direct health  care agreements.  Therefore, it                                                               
was requested to be omitted from participation.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:21:24 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DUNBAR  requested the sponsor provide  a more substantive                                                               
reason  for  excluding  Medicaid  as he  is  concerned  that  the                                                               
agreements will  target healthier  and wealthier people  and harm                                                               
lower-income individuals indirectly.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:22:22 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  WILSON  said  SB  45 is  primarily  to  help  underinsured                                                               
individuals who never reach their high deductible.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:22:56 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  WING-HEIER  said  a  payer  of  last  resort  is  the  final                                                               
insurance to pay  on a claim. For example, an  Aetna policy would                                                               
pay  first, and  Medicaid would  pay second.  If a  direct health                                                               
care agreement covered  an individual's needs, there  would be no                                                               
secondary payment.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:23:29 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DUNBAR  responded that direct health  care agreements are                                                               
not insurance and wondered why Medicaid would be implicated.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:23:38 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WING-HEIER replied  that the Department of  Health would need                                                               
to respond.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:23:56 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WILSON asked if Mr. Diemar had any comment.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:24:04 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. DIEMER said  SB 45 excluded Medicaid for  two reasons. First,                                                               
direct   healthcare  agreements   deliver  healthcare   services.                                                               
Medicaid's complex  rules require compulsory billing  and payment                                                               
according  to its  schedules for  receipt of  healthcare services                                                               
for  a Medicaid  beneficiary, which  is  then in  tension with  a                                                               
healthcare agreement.  Some states  have explored  Medicaid pilot                                                               
programs  where  Medicaid  enters   into  a  direct  health  care                                                               
agreement  with  providers.  Those agreements  were  between  the                                                               
state and  the providers of  defined services. The  Department of                                                               
Health asked to exclude Medicaid  beneficiaries because they will                                                               
receive a greater scope of  care and services under Medicaid than                                                               
through a direct health care agreement.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:25:35 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DUNBAR  asked if there was  a reduction in the  number of                                                               
physicians  accepting  Medicaid  in the  states  allowing  direct                                                               
health care agreements.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:25:49 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WILSON  stated he was  unaware of any studies  indicating a                                                               
reduction in  physicians accepting Medicaid due  to direct health                                                               
care agreements.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:25:58 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. UMBEHR replied  that he had not seen any  significant drop in                                                               
physicians accepting Medicaid. Instead,  there has been an uptake                                                               
in  the number  of Medicaid  patients  able to  receive care.  He                                                               
stated that fewer  than one in 11 Kansas doctors  were taking new                                                               
Medicaid patients a  few years ago. He opined that  being able to                                                               
have a contract  with a doctor outside of  Medicaid unburdens the                                                               
system  in  ways  such  as  no  copays,  free  telemedicine,  and                                                               
decreased travel responsibility. He compared  it to being able to                                                               
use food stamps not only at  the grocery store but at McDonald's.                                                               
He opined that  direct healthcare practices result in  a net gain                                                               
for Medicaid.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:27:24 PM                                                                                                                    
DR.  GROSS stated  that direct  healthcare  providers in  Florida                                                               
could see  Medicaid patients. He  said he understood  the concern                                                               
regarding  the complexity  of Medicaid  but  suggested the  focus                                                               
should  be on  the improved  access Medicaid  patients experience                                                               
due  to direct  healthcare  agreements. In  Florida doctors  that                                                               
previously  did  not  accept Medicaid  began  accepting  Medicaid                                                               
patients. He  stated that  the direct  healthcare model  does not                                                               
create  healthcare  access   obstacles  for  people  experiencing                                                               
poverty; it  improves it.  He said  that people  who do  not have                                                               
insurance or frequently  need to be seen by a  doctor travel many                                                               
hours to  his clinic and  are glad they can  be seen for  $80 per                                                               
month for an adult and $15 per month for a child.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:28:58 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GIESSEL  asked what the  distinction is  between Medicare                                                               
and Medicaid as payers of last resort.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:29:10 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WING-HEIER replied  that she would speak  with the Department                                                               
of Health and respond to the committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:29:22 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KAUFMAN  asked if direct  health care  agreements prevent                                                               
doctors from working pro bono.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:29:46 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  UMBEHR  answered  no;  doctors  are  more  likely  to  offer                                                               
scholarships  or  discounts to  patients  because,  in a  typical                                                               
insurance setting,  over and  under-billing is  considered fraud.                                                               
The direct  healthcare model  frees doctors  up for  charity work                                                               
and  medical student  mentoring. It  is  a net  gain for  at-risk                                                               
people.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:31:12 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR TOBIN  referenced SB  45, page  3, line  9, and  asked if                                                               
there is a  provision for a patient to decline  a continuation of                                                               
an agreement if there is a fee increase.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARTIN replied that there is no such provision in SB 45.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TOBIN suggested adding a provision.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:31:58 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  TOBIN asked  what recourse  patients with  direct health                                                               
care agreements would have if mistreated.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:32:24 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MARTIN replied  that the recourse for  unfair treatment would                                                               
be through  the Attorney  General's Office  under acts  of unfair                                                               
trade practices.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:32:49 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WILSON opened  public testimony on SB 45;  finding none, he                                                               
closed public testimony.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:33:47 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GIESSEL  asked if  the Department  of Health  (DOH) would                                                               
come  before the  committee to  discuss  the differences  between                                                               
Medicaid and Medicare as payers of last resort.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON replied that he would  ask DOH to prepare a response                                                               
when they next meet with the committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:34:36 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WILSON held SB 45 in committee.                                                                                           

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SB 45 v S.PDF SHSS 2/7/2023 3:30:00 PM
SHSS 2/9/2023 3:30:00 PM
SB 45
SB 45 Sponsor Statement 2.1.2023.pdf SHSS 2/7/2023 3:30:00 PM
SHSS 2/9/2023 3:30:00 PM
SB 45
SB 45 Sectional Analysis v. S 2.1.23.pdf SHSS 2/7/2023 3:30:00 PM
SHSS 2/9/2023 3:30:00 PM
SB 45
SB 45 v S Fiscal Note.pdf SHSS 2/7/2023 3:30:00 PM
SHSS 2/9/2023 3:30:00 PM
SB 45